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>The sentence he was pale blue and shivering has a different meaning from he was pale, blue, and shivering, the latter being synonymous with he was pale and blue and shivering. <
Indeed they are different in meaning. And so would be: "he was pale, blue and shivering" be different again.
(But mayhap we could also write: "he was pale-blue and shivering".
The guides you mention have their opinion, I have mine. How do they justify commas on more than two items and not just in two. It is a question of style, not grammar.
They don't need to justify what they report as being used commonly and acceptably in the world of writing and editing.
There is no need for a second comma in red, white and blue, any more than one would write "I had eggs, and bacon for breakfast" Oxford comma? Bah, humbug.
I spend a lot of time trying to get school children to use capital letters and full stops. If I ever achieve 100% compliance with these conventions, I might concentrate on commas. I shant be teaching them the HOC though. They never 'learned' us that at my school.
I was always taught that you shouldn't put a comma before 'and',
It depends on what the and is doing. If it's joining two main clauses, it should be preceded by a comma (unless those clauses are very short!). If it's joining two items as a unit, then it is not used before or after the and. If it's joining the last in a series of three or more items (or phrases, clauses, units, etc.), then it's a matter of personal style. I (and Tone, Verbivore, and others) prefer the serial comma. belton, hubertis, and others prefer not to use it. What you were taught (or perhaps remember being taught) was that teacher's personal style.
It's interesting to note how many "rules" of English start out with I was always taught ...
Never begin a sentence with a conjunction Never end a sentence with a preposition Never split an infinitive Never (or Always) use a comma before the last item in a series etc.
What you were being taught was the teacher's choice of personal style concerning those things. There are plenty of things we must always or never do when writing, but there are a few things that are a matter of style. And some styles are more widely accepted than others. To be too far off the norm inhibits your reader's ability to understand your points clearly. So if communication is your goal in writing (and why else would you be writing?), then write to your audience in a style understandable to them, throwing out those "rules" that tend to hinder.
I so much agree with your post about teachers personal style, Dave. I was also once told my story was ' too far fetched to ring true' by a teacher. It totally inhibited my creative writing as a consequence.
Decades later we have J K Rowling, Terry Pratchett etc who broke my teachers rule and made millions.
How do you scoffers feel about the serial comma when it's used with but or or instead of and as the conjunction?
There can be two, four, but not six players of the game.
and / or / but
And and or get the HOC treatment from me when appropriate. Those are both simple conjunctions and usually can be treated equally. But seems to pose problems, and I'm scratching for a valid example of a HOC-but list.
The flag included red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and violet but pink, white, gold, or brown could be added later.
She must choose from pink, mauve, taupe, or lemon.
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