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APS Message Forum :: General :: Apostrophe Use & Abuse :: James' or James's Room? Page 1 of 4 » Jump to page   Go     Author Topic: James' or James's Room? (Read 2,755 times) sae New Member member is offline Joined: Feb 2012 Gender: Female Posts: 3 Location: Kent James' or James's Room? « Thread Started on Feb 6, 2012, 8:11pm » My son is called James. To refer to something belonging to him I would always put the apostorphe after the s ie: James', but some people put James's. Which is correct? Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Belton (Moderator) Global Moderator member is offline John Richards, APS Chairman and Forum Moderator Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 263 Location: Boston, Lincs. UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #1 on Feb 6, 2012, 9:58pm » In English the singular possessive is indicated by 's so the possessive of James is James's. This is the only answer as far as the Apostrophe Protection Society is concerned. Other people may have other opinions, but this site sticks to correct grammar. Please note the it is St. James's Palace in London. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged John Richards (APS Chairman & Forum Moderator) hubertus Senior Member member is offline Joined: Jan 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 458 Location: W. Yorkshire, England Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #2 on Feb 7, 2012, 12:52am » In what sense is the grammar this site sticks to 'correct'? As I understand it, there are two conflicting conventions in common usage on this point. And this is one of the reasons I do not agree with those who assert that rules of the apostrophe are easy to 'master'. « Last Edit: Feb 7, 2012, 12:54am by hubertus » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Dave Advanced Member member is offline Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 702 Location: San Jose, CA Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #3 on Feb 7, 2012, 7:46am » This forum is littered with threads on this topic. Read though them to get opinions on both sides, including that both can be "correct." Most style guides address this issue (and some are quoted in those related threads). After that, take part in the poll in one of the top-listed threads. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Dave hubertus Senior Member member is offline Joined: Jan 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 458 Location: W. Yorkshire, England Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #4 on Feb 7, 2012, 8:30am » Thanks, Dave. I had a look at the poll some time ago. As you would expect, I would go for James with no possessive apostrophe nor superfluous 's'. I know that doesnt conform with any generally recognised convention. I suppose Jameses would be my next favoured option. « Last Edit: Feb 7, 2012, 5:08pm by hubertus » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Belton (Moderator) Global Moderator member is offline John Richards, APS Chairman and Forum Moderator Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 263 Location: Boston, Lincs. UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #5 on Feb 7, 2012, 10:36am » It is correct in that, in English, the singular possessive is indicated by 's. Examples are Bob's book, John's car and so on. Style guides and common usage are just that. They do not necessarily reflect English grammar and need not be taken seriously. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged John Richards (APS Chairman & Forum Moderator) Dave Advanced Member member is offline Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 702 Location: San Jose, CA Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #6 on Feb 7, 2012, 4:20pm » And neither can that. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Dave Tone Advanced Member member is offline "I don't do Happy." Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 909 Location: West of London (ex-Hampshire) Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #7 on Feb 7, 2012, 9:43pm » >It is correct in that, in English, the singular possessive is indicated by 's.< Or, more correctly: It is correct in that, in one of two common versions of English, the singular possessive is indicated by 's. Tone Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Belton (Moderator) Global Moderator member is offline John Richards, APS Chairman and Forum Moderator Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 263 Location: Boston, Lincs. UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #8 on Feb 7, 2012, 10:26pm » Which correct version of English does not use 's for the singular possessive? Would anyone say that "Bob' book" is correct? Common versions can (and too often do) use what they like, but that does not make them correct. I will state once again that the plural possessive, i.e. s' cannot apply to singular possessives despite "common usage" Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged John Richards (APS Chairman & Forum Moderator) Pete Advanced Member member is offline Punctuation is the virtue of the bored! Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 738 Location: Leicester, UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #9 on Feb 27, 2012, 2:23pm » Feb 7, 2012, 12:52am, hubertus wrote: In what sense is the grammar this site sticks to 'correct'? As I understand it, there are two conflicting conventions in common usage on this point. And this is one of the reasons I do not agree with those who assert that rules of the apostrophe are easy to 'master'. They are easy to master, hubertus, as long as one is willing to master more than one set of rules. « Last Edit: Feb 27, 2012, 2:23pm by Pete » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Pete Advanced Member member is offline Punctuation is the virtue of the bored! Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 738 Location: Leicester, UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #10 on Feb 27, 2012, 2:25pm » More seriously, of course, where there are differences of opinion, as we have here, it is important to be consistent. If you always use the same rule, one might debate whether you are right or wrong. But if you constantly flip from one to the other, you just appear ignorant. Even hubertus is consistent in his non-use of apostrophes. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Pete Advanced Member member is offline Punctuation is the virtue of the bored! Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 738 Location: Leicester, UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #11 on Feb 27, 2012, 2:30pm » Feb 7, 2012, 10:26pm, Belton (Moderator) wrote: Which correct version of English does not use 's for the singular possessive? Would anyone say that "Bob' book" is correct? Common versions can (and too often do) use what they like, but that does not make them correct. I will state once again that the plural possessive, i.e. s' cannot apply to singular possessives despite "common usage" I think you know by now, John, that I have personally come around to your way of thinking on this, so I always use 's. But I think you are being unfair in your examples here: the English language is littered with rules that have exceptions. All we have here is a school of thought that says that the possessive (or genitive) case can be shown by a terminal apostrophe alone, if the word ends in s (and, in some people's views, in x or z, too). Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Tone Advanced Member member is offline "I don't do Happy." Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 909 Location: West of London (ex-Hampshire) Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #12 on Feb 27, 2012, 9:48pm » >I have personally come around to your way of thinking on this, so I always use 's < So you will be with the minority in the poll, then. (But you have that right for your own usage.) Tone Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Pete Advanced Member member is offline Punctuation is the virtue of the bored! Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 738 Location: Leicester, UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #13 on Feb 29, 2012, 2:11pm » Feb 27, 2012, 9:48pm, Tone wrote: >I have personally come around to your way of thinking on this, so I always use 's < So you will be with the minority in the poll, then. (But you have that right for your own usage.) Tone If I remember rightly, I voted pro choice! Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged piimapoika New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 10 Location: UK Re: James' or James's Room? « Reply #14 on Mar 4, 2012, 7:15pm » I would ask myself this question: When saying the phrase aloud, would I add an -iz sound to the name? If so I would use the 's possessive; otherwise the apostrophe alone. For example, would I say James-iz room, or Thomas-iz girlfriend, or Jesus-iz disciples? Yes I would; so I would write James's room, etc. Would I say Archimedes-iz screw, or Socrates-iz students? No; so I would write Archimedes' screw or Socrates' students. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Page 1 of 4 » Jump to page   Go     Forum Jump--------------------» Home--------------------» General--------------------- Apostrophe Use & Abuse --- Welcome, APS Policy & Forum News- Other English Language Problems

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